Sunday, 12 October 2008

The Future

As the G7 countries meet this weekend to discuss the financial crisis, it's tempting for them to come up with an incremental solution to the world's financial problems.

However, I believe they need to think ahead and work back from what could be a completely different and innovative way of working the system.

How about one international bank and one international currency? And how about letting the system re-base so that all current debt is wiped?

OK the rich would get poorer and the poor would get richer, and jobs would be lost - but then so would time be freed... And maybe people would be freed from the shackles to enable them to do real good in the world?

I read about the troubles in Iceland this weekend. Essentially a country in meltdown without even the money to pay for imports of food. Are we going to bail them out? Or let them live on fish?

Have we now got Western countries which now threaten to become third world countries?

Where does the bailout end?

Shouldn't the entire world now take responsibility for the entire world?

80 comments:

Stephen said...

SAY NO TO HOUSE REPOSSESSIONS.

This is one place to start.

Accepted when there was a free market. Now there is not.

SAY NO TO HOUSE REPOSSESSIONS.

TheDLOG said...

I don't think we have Western countries becoming third world countries, I think it is just becoming a more level playing field for the world on the whole, ie, as you stated "the rich would get poorer and the poor would get richer", but the world wiuold and should be all equal, financially.
Also I think that continent single currencies would be better, as in the Euro for Europe, but keep it Europe, Middle East/Arab countries to have one currency, and so on and so forth, as opposed to one single World currency.
But of course this is only my opinion, and could be further explained, but unfortunately not on here as it would take several weeks to type and read!

DLOG

Stephen said...

"Shouldn't the entire world now take responsibility for the entire world?"

Thats a good idea Rachel.

We could call it the New World Order and it could be run by all the same people who have been leeching off the old system for years.

Anonymous said...

Although I think Iceland has been reckless with their expansion I still think we must help them.

As for a single currency, that requires a real shift of power to...who exactly? Look at the impact the Euro has had on some countries. It has arguably contributed to the boom and subsequent bust in Ireland for example. Also, it becomes the tyranny of the majority; it shifts even more power to larger countries because you have to set an interest rate policy across the whole area.

Anyway, there is a sort of global currency and its called the US Dollar. Most of the worlds main commodities are priced in US Dollars after all.

As for wiping all debt, a tad unrealistic me thinks. After all we are addicted to the stuff. Access to credit was allegedly one of the liberating forces of the 20th century enabling more people to buy their own homes etc. However, the rush for credit was also accompanied by a lack of responsibility on the part of the lenders and borrowers.

C

Stephen said...

Absolute tosh C.

You will not find the ordinary man addicted to debt.

What the ordinary man needs is a job, a warm, safe place to live and some food.

The frenzy of credit is designed by those who have most to gain, who use their power to lure the ordinary man in to positions of debt.

The choice you talk about that everyone has is technically correct. But when you look beyond the bluff - you see they are being tricked by crooked people.

The ordinary man is someone who is happy to live an ordinary life.

Your perception is probably clouded because you are surrounded by people who have 2nd, 3rd or 10th homes.

I tell you, you speak the worse kind of injustice.

Don't class the ordinary person who are faced three options as borrowers.

Most ordinary people i know have 3 options
1. Live on the streets
2. Pay someone else's 2nd mortgage via exhaustionate rent
3. Get a mortgage, so you can live somewhere

You got a lot of waking up to do C.
Or perhaps you cannot bring yourself down sufficiently enough to know the ordinary man. Don't tell lies about them.

Grow up, like the rest of them.

Anonymous said...

Ah, we are back to your idea that the masses are unconscious individuals who are wholly without responsibility. That's not just tosh that shows a fundamental lack of respect for people. Ok, so most are probably not blessed with your cognitive ability but that does not make them stupid or incapable of taking responsibility for decisions.

I would accept that mortgage debt to buy a house is not an addiction but a reasonable necessity. But that doesn't explain the rest of the stuff, both secured and unsecured that buys things like experience vouchers to name just one non-essential product. Would you accuse Rachel of luring people into debt who purchased those vouchers on their credit cards? I think not.

Also, let's not forget the national debt that is effectively enabling society to have hospitals and schools now, rather than waiting for taxation to pay for them.

No I am sorry but I think we have an addiction to the stuff.

C

Stephen said...

People in our society are incentivised and motivated by fear.

As opposed to love.

Our children are pressured into wanting more. People expect more because they are trapped in a society that spins the illusion that more is good and less is bad.

They are scared that if they don't have this or that, they will lose everything and everyone.

Society does not have to be this way.

Now that the bubble has burst and we now know the truth that this illusion has been spun by a bunch incompetent crooks we can start to do something about it.

No, people are not stupid C, but they have been brainwashed by the financial suits who peddle a drug called debt.

I call them The Finance Pimps!

Stephen said...

HEY RACHEL.... I AM PUTTING A CALL OUT TO EVERYONE TO BECOME SUPPORTERS OF THE PEOPLE - AGAINST ALL ATTEMPTS TO COLLECT DEBTS FROM ORDINARY CITIZENS.

THE PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO PAY TAXES BUT THEY WILL NO LONGER BE THREATENED BY THE VERY INSTITUTIONS THAT THEIR MONEY HAS GONE TO BAIL OUT. THEY WILL REPAY THEIR DEBTS, BUT WILL NOT BE THROWN OUT OF THEIR HOMES OR SUFFER INJUSTICE FROM LENDERS ANY LONGER.

SO EVERYONE, PLEASE ALERT FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO THIS CAMPAIGN AND URGE THEM TO CONSIDER SUPPORTING THE PEOPLE BY DEVELOPING AN AGENDA THAT WILL SEE 1 MILLION PEOPLE JOIN TOGETHER AND SAY NO!

NO TO HOME REPOSSESSIONS. NO TO LENDER INJUSTICE OF ANY KIND.

This campaign isn't about people who are fat, lazy bourgeoisie types. This campaign is about ordinary people who are being conned out of their homes by companies that promise to buy their house and rent it back to them, only for them to find in the small print that they can be put you out on the street within 6 months to one year. And i am telling you they do. There are 8,000 of these predatory companies in the UK alone and have done 50,000 transactions.

This campaign is to protect all those hard working ordinary citizens who are falling prey to a failing financial system.

So hopefully folks will think about what i am proposing and begin putting some kind of constructive action to the words. And i am not just talking about U.S and UK. We should try and help everyone in trouble with debt to pay for basic needs (and a home is a basic need for everyone).

Please consider putting your good name to this campaign Rachel.

sara said...

I'd be up for that Stephen.
My parents have recently lost their shop after 30 years. Send me details at sarahunter@uk2.net.

Thank you

Sara

Rachel Elnaugh said...

Stephen

Yes I do agree the system needs to change.

I would like the oft quoted statement to change to: YOUR HOME WILL NOT BE REPOSSESSED IF YOU DON'T KEEP UP REPAYMENTS ON YOUR MORTGAGE.

Instead there should be a system whereby:
a) Mortgage lenders are more careful who they lend money to
b) All mortgage holders have to take out an insurance against unemployment/injury etc which would keep up repayments if they lose their job
c) If mortgagees are in default there is no automatic right to repossess; instead the mortgagee works out a solution in each instance dependent on circumstances.
d) Mortgagors can get an attachment to earnings order to protect them against mortgageees who just won't pay up (but have an income)

There should also be more provision of good quality, council owned rented housing for those who don't have a deposit to purchase their own (this alone would revive the building industry)

The above would make mortagors more cautious, yes, but in the long run would provide for and protect everyone.

TheDLOG said...

Stephen, tell me more, I have always seen these people as sharks, the end result being they take your home, as there has to be a catch with them!!

DLOG

TheDLOG said...

Rachel, with regard to good council housing, some years back when Thatcher was in Government a lot of council properties where sold, as you well know, the money collected was kept in a deposit account, the problem was, apparently, that if the council used the money to build housing they would have been taxed on it, ludicrous, can't see the point of that, they should have been forced to spend the money collected on housing.

DLOG

Stephen said...

YOUR HOME WILL NOT BE REPOSSESSED IF YOU DON'T KEEP UP REPAYMENTS ON YOUR MORTGAGE.

Yes this is an excellent statement Rachel.

And of course we're not talking about people with 2nd or 3rd homes etc.

I think we need some government intervention here which offers this assurance to home owners.

Now that we know that the free market isn't free, it is only right and proper that we invite the leadership to reflect this change by protecting those whose homes will now be threatened by this situation.

Why should ordinary people be subjected to the same pressures as the (old free market) and not have bail-out - in the same way as the institutions?

Rachel, I would sincerely like you to consider taking this agenda forward in the name of all hard working citizens who are likely to be threatened by home repossession.

Rachel Elnaugh said...

It really is counterproductive for the government to allow home repossessions - these people then become a burden on the State, can't get a job because they are bankrupt or homeless or whatever, start claiming benefits and so on.

In the long run it's far more expensive to let them fall than to support them through the storm and help them re-build their finances.

Now the government owns all the banks it has a golden opportunity to introduce legislation.

At the same time I'd also remove the rights of the Inland Revenue to force people into bankruptcy over tax & VAT debts.

Stephen said...

Yes, i agree Rachel. We must fight for our small businesses because they are the last line of defense to safeguarding the well being of the British people.

Today we were treated to a frenzy of land of hope of glory in London with our 2008 Olympic team(well done) against the backdrop of impending international meltdown and financial anarchy.

Tonight i will no doubt have to suffer the pain of watching Question Time (i'm addicted) where Dimbelby gives the floor to those stuck up panelists and little time to the people who they serve in the audience.

I have written to my MP Michael Howard who is as up your arse as you can get. So no joy there.

I think we need a Citizens Advice Bureau that does more than just spout legal jargon from a book.

We need to create an agency to help the people of this land out of this crisis. What do you think Rachel?

Anonymous said...

"It really is counterproductive for the government to allow home repossessions - these people then become a burden on the State, can't get a job because they are bankrupt or homeless or whatever, start claiming benefits and so on."

Painfully true. The one thing governments dont do is look out for people in deep need. Wich in my opinon should be their primary concern.

Instead they make a great spectacle of bailing out people with means and positions not doing their jobs properly. All the while claiming its for the good of all of us.

Its midevaly inhumane. /Bo

Stephen said...

Well the story goes /Bo - that you must be a loser if you want to stand up for people.

This translates to - if you care deeply about people - then you must be naive, weak, poor or stupid.

Well, all the time i had respect for business people i worked with at the top of industry in the UK i was happy to accept this.

Now they have all proven to be stupid, crooked, silly arses the tables have turned.

Now it is all about helping people who have been harmed by this so called "entrepreneurial activity".

DP said...

hi, just saying hello. Really like the sound of some of these threads. "come the revolution".

keep up the good work.


DP

Anonymous said...

"It really is counterproductive for the government to allow home repossessions"

I agree. Unlike bailing out the banks there is no real moral hazard here. There are other means of recovering the money without recourse to eviction. Remember though that even though it grabs the headlines the numbers of repossessions are still very low.

C

Anonymous said...

stephen: Sorry to say this but I disagree. Greed lives in all of us in different forms. As does good in all forms and sizes. Bill Gates for example gives more to charity than poor countries collect in taxes. Its not a black and white thing.

But what happens with governments is that in its eagerness to rectify and smooth over trouble of all kinds it generally does more harm than good as in the case with these bail-outs. It gives the most aid to those who need it the least and f-ed up the most.

Now. I dont mind helping a fellow human being in need. But it disgusts me to pay people for doing a crappy job. No matter how large or small that sum is. Its textbook stuff of how governments should not act. /Bo

Stephen said...

Yes, i understand /Bo.

Greed is as much a condition of the ordinary man as it is of the rich and powerful.

This is why i do not put the blame for our woes at the door of greed.

Greed is merely a convenient way of interpreting the current situation.

The problem is fairly and squarely at the door of government and with financial regulators.

The responsibility for maintaining the integrity of the markets was theres and they let us all down.

I heard a story that said that auditors from the FSA were unable to comprehend the financial models presented by Barclays Bank.

I have been involved in this kind of TRANSACTION before and i have to say - "i would never have signed off the health of a company on the basis that i was unable to understand what they were all
about". In fact i would have been even more diligent by the fact they were presenting as a "difficult to understand business".

Anonymous said...

stephen: *thumbs up* /Bo

TheDLOG said...

Bo, "But it disgusts me to pay people for doing a crappy job." What do you consider a crappy job?

And with regards to greed, how does one measure greed and can greed be applied to anything in life, ie can you be greedy for peace, for love, for happines, and if so is that sort of greed wrong?

DLOG

Stephen said...

I'm looking forward to the day when men and women of integrity come forward and decide enough is enough and decide it is time to a fund a war on financial terrorism.

Its about time the snakes were torn from the system. They are not difficult to identify.

All you need do is to ask them questions.

The truth is in HOW they answer, not in the substance of the answer.

TheDLOG said...

STephen "The truth is in HOW they answer, not in the substance of the answer"

Couldn't agree more.

DLOG

hani said...

Have just been reading a little about Buckminster Fuller. In view of Rachel's and others' comments, the following information about him seems so apt to mind.

'So long as space remains, So long as sentient beings remain, I will remain, In order to help, In order to serve, In order to make my own contribution. This is the vow of the Bodhisatva. As "Spaceship Earth' spirals into a future of radiant possibility, we find ourselves merging with the dreams; ideals and principles inspired by the great master thinkers of humanity.

R. Buckminster Fuller; inventor, architect, engineer, mathematician, poet and cosmologist was one of the most enlightened mystics of the last century. His universal vision saw our planet as "Spaceship Earth'. He secretly took the responsibility of being a "ships captain' and with passionate intent made his goal helping to care for everyone onboard. Bucky committed his entire productivity to the whole planet Earth and its resources; undertaking to protect and advance all life. He found greater effectiveness in his work when doing so entirely for others. The larger number for who he worked, the more positively effective he became.'

Stephen said...

peace Hani.

TheDLOG said...

R. Buckminster Fuller - "Considering himself an average individual without special monetary means or academic degree, he chose to devote his life to this question, trying to identify what he, as an individual, could do to improve humanity's condition, which large organizations, governments, and private enterprises inherently could not do."

Oh if we could have another like him, what joy the world would be.

Thanks for the insight into this man Hani, just checked him out on wikipedia, most inetersting.

DLOG

Stephen said...

R. Buckminster Fuller

A very enlightened spirit.

Peter Cook said...

Although I am an eternal optimist, history repeatedly tells us that the world does not run on logic, for it has human beings on it, who have a 'design fault' in terms of things like selfishness, greed, avarice and so on. We are used to the phrase 'People are our greatest asset', rather less used to the phrase 'People are our greatest liability'.

I doubt that the world will learn from this crisis, as it is no different than many others, where people and countries have promised to repent and so on.

Although I basically understand why the Government bailed out the banks at a rational level, even I suffer from the human condition that says 'what a bloody cheek - I've paid for this in taxes from my business.... where's my payout / support..'

As long as there are a majority of people who are prone to selfish thoughts, I fear we will never change the world for the better.

For example, Nicholas Sarkozy proclaimed that we cannot afford green initiatives in this crisis the other week. What a classic example of short termism and what a dipstick for saying it.

Meanwhilc, I was working in London and walked past Coutts Bank the other day - someone drove out in a Bentley. It occurred to me that this banking crisis is not really that bad! :-()

Peter

p.s. Thanks for the book

TheDLOG said...

Peter, with all due respect, not all humans have this 'design fault', you don't appear to have, having read your comment.

With regards to the Bentley, I think it is an 'I'm alright jack' scenario. There many people in this world/country who have made vast amounts of, and no I do not hold it against them, but they should remeber how they got there and who helped them on their journey to success. Unfortunately though there are many in this bracket who do forget and they are the allright jack brigade!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

Again, it is all too convenient and actually misleading to blame primitive emotions for the current economic crises.

This was cold, calculated crime. The regulatory bodies were designed to ensure that the financial markets had the flexibility required to eventually suck all the goodness dry.

Then comes the blackmail where a lot of this goodness gets replaced by the very people who are going to get screwed. The "general public" - so they call them.

Well why wouldn't the general public help??? They got a gun against their head!!!

If you don't do this then that!!!!

Rachel Elnaugh said...

I was at an interesting event on Saturday all about climate change and how it was interlinked with the credit crunch...

Essentially the speaker explained very eloquently how all this massive materialism over the past few decades (which is destroying the Earth's resources and climate), has been fuelled by money which didn't exist (debt), making many business people rich - at least in theory because they had bank statements with lots of nice big numbers on them.

The roundabout has now stopped because confidence in this system has gone... So the governments are shoring up those rich people's bank statements (via keeping the banking system alive) with - you've guessed it - more debt.

These same governments are now discussing how they can create 'a new financial architecture'.

Well I think they need to go much further than that. The world needs a new, fairer way of operating. It is an absolute disgrace to humanity for example that 6 billion people on this planet are allowed to live on less than $1 per day while others live on gourmet banquets.

The governments need to let the current system entirely crash.

This would have the effect of levelling much of this notional 'wealth' and in an instant it would restore value (and appreciation of) the Earth's natural resources. the rules regarding ownership need to be reviewed. Ownership is the root of many of the Earth's problems - the reality is no one really owns this planet.

This would force every country to look again at how it generates its food, water and energy supplies and maximise the use of its natural resources.

Yes there would be much upheaval, change and unemployment, but people's time and knowledge are also of value; coming together in communities to get back to basics would be an interesting way of replacing the current system with one much more in harmony with the planet and respect for its (limited) resources.

We can only preserve the current status quo for so long before it collapses anyway - so why not use this golden opportunity to manage the change in a controlled way?

Stephen said...

The big fear is Rachel.... how would we manage such a transition?

I would hope that with all the government think tanks out there - there would already be contingency plans.

My real concern is that our leaders would not be able to manage such a paradigm-shift and are unprepared for what is to come.

We are starting to see immigration controls, so perhaps this is the start of it. Globalization may just have been a bridge too far, at this point in history.

Good leaders can manage the world - we don't have good leaders.

TheDLOG said...

it's the Government think tanks that got us into this situation, remember what thought done,
"He thought his feet where hanging out of the bed, so he got up to have a look"!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

Nice one DLOG.

Yes, i must agree. Being a bit hopeful there, but i know scenario planning is a big part of what they do. But perhaps they have spent all this time and money planning scenarios for winning elections or something. Or what it Gordon Browns trousers were to fall down in public etc

There are a lot of extremely smart people in government but the smarts are bogged down by the stench of politics.

I think someone worked out that the word "integrity" is no longer a trustworthy word - as long as you remain doing the same old crap stuff as you always have - then you must be a person of integrity!

Stephen said...

Just to say....this blog is working as far as networking....

See you at the weekend for a drink DLOG!

Maybe meet up with everyone else in the future....

best,

TheDLOG said...

Sounds good to me, we should have a blog party, what you think Rachel, Hani, Anne, Leona, C, maybe you would like to come also Mr A Dragon, you come in disguise, that way you can keep anonymous, oh and Elz what about you, but don't bring the snake!! heehee

DLOG

Mr A Dragon said...

Will it be a "Brain Transplant" Party, because that's what some of you need.

And yes I will come in disguise as a Rachel Disciple shouting

"The Messiah, The Messiah!

Until some passer-by points out "It's only that yuppy woman off that Dragons Den programme what lost her business by getting all lardy-da with them BBC types and not really knowing what was going on back at the office"

Rachel your comment

"It is an absolute disgrace to humanity for example that 6 billion people on this planet are allowed to live on less than $1 per day while others live on gourmet banquets"

is nice and fluffy and makes you sound like a really nice person. Well come on then, put your money where your mouth is, why not sell your home, buy a smaller one and give the proceeds to a deserving third world charity?

No? I didnt think so. And there Ladies and Gentlemen is why the world is the way it is. The rich LIKE BEING rich.

And letting the western systems crash certainly wont help the third world either, who will then help them with thier climate and economic problems?

Start living in the real world, yes people can and do make a difference, but basically it will always be a jungle out there - thats life.

So, when you all have sold all your possesions and given it all to charity or are working in some third world country helping the poorest people in the world, then you will get my respect.

Until then STFU and stop pretending to believe in some high and mighty cause. Face facts you're just like the rest of us, we like being comfortable and no commy new-world-order do-gooder is going to take that away!

Here endeth the lesson.

TheDLOG said...

Well if it is a brain transplant party we won't be using yours, cos we won't be able to find it.

What is it with you anyway, why are you so anti Rachel, I think she is a wonderful person. I really can't see the problem you have with her, or for that matter the problem you have with people that like Rachel.

Where are you comiong from, MARS?

DLOG

Stephen said...

Mr A Dragon said...

Stop trying to reassure yourself and everyone else that this world is only full of self-interested people. I suspect if you are one of those up your arse people then you would prefer it that way.

It would serve the powers that be well to see people who care down in the dust. Your words are typical of those who assume to much and would contribute the least.

Let the Dragon free.

It doesn't need to share our journey.

TheDLOG said...

Mr A Drogon, is this you by any chance, you sound like a bit of a plant!!

"A pot plant in Japan has become an Internet celebrity after it began writing a blog of its daily life"

DLOG

Anonymous said...

"It is an absolute disgrace to humanity for example that 6 billion people on this planet are allowed to live on less than $1 per day."

The actual number is somewhere just over 1Bn by UN estimates. Still a huge number but not 85% of the world's population as Rachel suggests.

C

TheDLOG said...

Some sad facts:
1.2 billion people live on less than U.S.$1 dollar a day.
Over half of the world's population - 3 billion people -lives on less than U.S.$2 per day.
Every year, 6 million children die from malnutrition before their 5th birthday.
Over 11 million children die each year from preventable causes like malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia.

C, does it really make any difference if it is $1 a day or $2 a day, it is still to many people living in poverty.

DLOG

Rachel Elnaugh said...

Read Muhammad Yunus: 'Creating a World Without Poverty', you will revise your view.

Stephen said...

Rachel/Anne/DLOG/Hani and all folks, i have recently been speaking to a wonderful guy called Mooji who wants to set-up a website to set-up a public foundation for the sole purpose of uniting and enlightening humanity on a global scale. His Youtube gallery is below. Listen to what he has to say. Start with the top left video. Let me know on this forum or by email (intrench@gmail.com) what you think. I want to get a few thousand quid together. He says everything Rachel and others have spoken about and more. Very, very enlightening for the soul.

http://uk.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Moojiji

Stephen said...

that post also to Leona.
oopss.......

Rachel Elnaugh said...

Stephen

I am mobile at present but will definitely do the YouTube logon.

Meantime just to say we don't need a website to sign up, the rising of the collective conscious simply by expressing views, aligning intent and joining energy is powerful enough on its own.

Interesting that Das Kapital is flying off the shelves, not that I am advocating Marxism but it is an indicator that there is an uprising, as people are searching for understanding and a 'new way of being'.

Warm regards to all.

TheDLOG said...

Rachel,

"Read Muhammad Yunus: 'Creating a World Without Poverty', you will revise your view."

I can only assume that the comment above was directed at C, or you have misunderstood my comment, as yes my litery skills are some what poor.

DLOG

Mr A Dragon said...

DLOG Said:

1.2 billion people live on less than U.S.$1 dollar a day.
Over half of the world's population - 3 billion people -lives on less than U.S.$2 per day.
Every year, 6 million children die from malnutrition before their 5th birthday.
Over 11 million children die each year from preventable causes like malaria, diarrhea and pneumonia.

Ok, so what are you doing about it? Nothing I am willing to bet.

Talk, talk, talk - use the excuse for inaction of "Collective Consciousness", oh no sorry, you are going to do something - reading a book!

Wow! I am in awe of the new Peoples Warriors of Goodness! You have sacrificed much for the good of all mankind, we are eternally grateful.

Get off your fat arses, leave you computers, you have no need for them now and do something!

TheDLOG said...

Mr A Dragon,

Actually I have not got a fat arse, I am about 10.5 stone, so fact, you are wrong with your comment on fat arses, secondly I actually do a lot of CHARITY work, so fact, you are wrong again.

You really must get your facts together first before you start throwing acusations around, don't you think, oh, I forgot you don't think do you, that is obviousley your problem!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

Mr A Dragon, There is a lot going on beyond charitible work and much of it being accomplished using the computer keyboard.

People are beginning to awaken from spiritual ignorance as Rachel says. The Internet is enabling us to share loving wisdom like never before. There are many good people out there who hold positions of power, besides those who would abuse it. These people form the guardian wall around humanity. There are programmers who could pull the plug on many of the abusive institutions if injustice were ever to become so unbearable.

We are not victims and we will not stop in our mission to create a world of honesty and justice.

I suggest if you are not going to help - you sit back in your comfy chair and watch this space.

ps. you don't know what people have already done to contribute. WTF have you done?

Mr A Dragon said...

DLOG - Think of "Fat" as a metaphorical term for "comfortable" or "content". You understand metaphor dont you? In fact it sounds like you might have a cute little tushy.

Who am I? What have I done? These are irrelevant questions, small pieces of a much bigger puzzle.

Think of me like Caine from the hit 1970's TV Series "Kung Fu". I walk the earth, working with my hands, helping people if they need it.

And just as Caine did, occasionally having to kick peoples arses (metaphorically (that big word again) of course) just as I am having to do with you guys.

Think of me as your kindly, but a bit tough, kick-you-in-the-pants- when-needed guardian angel.

I'm a catalyst of action to your rather mushy idealogy.

Here endeth Lesson No. 2.

TheDLOG said...

Mr A Dragon

Not that I like name dropping but, my gaurdian was Tony Lambrianou + Co, and now the ones who have replaced him, so to speak!!
So I really don't need to, as you say "Think of me as your kindly, but a bit tough, kick-you-in-the-pants- when-needed guardian angel"

I have my own protectors as it where.

You see Mr A Dragon, you never know who the next man knows!!

The well protected DLOG

Stephen said...

Mr A Dragon, sounds to me like your ego is bigger than your brain.

I suspect you made a bit of money. Deluded yourself that it was all (you, you, you) that made it - and now your sense of spirituality is propped up only by your pride.

If you are here to teach us, i suspect our understanding would be on very unstable ground.

You are a catalyst of your own ego.... that's what you are.

You're not that big 6 foot 6 idiot are you? Or that rough little fat beaver brummie who is about as convincing in business as Barclays bankers. Or perhaps that baldy headed grecian in the stationary department that needs a good kicking?

haha!

TheDLOG said...

Steady on Stephen, I'm half a grecian!!

DLOG

Mr A Dragon said...

Umm Interesting, it is often around Lesson No 3 that the subject's true personality emerges and here is no exception..

DLOG espouses the virtues of justice, freedom, equality, a new world order one minute and then braggs about an association with a 1960's gangster and convicted murderer the next!

Stephen, yet again you fall into the tired and boring vitriol directed at the Dragons and others, why? No wonder Rachel is finding it so hard to shake off the past, with you bringing it up all the time!

I am starting to see many character defects, traits perhaps associated with exclusion from society on some level.

My work here, it seems has only just begun. But for now..

Here endeth Lesson No.3.

TheDLOG said...

Mr A Dragon, I know many people of all walks of life in all professions, and like I said before, I do not like name dropping, but I had no alternative in response to your comments Grasshopper!!

I would have never divulged to Rachel or anyone on this blog any of my connections, had you not put me in such a corner.

I do not like people to know who I know, especially not people like you.

So now I must appologise to Rachel and others on this blog for allowing myself to be compromised by you Grasshopper.

Sorry.

DLOG

Stephen said...

Mr A Dragon:

You will definitely find many defects here, because judging by your posts, it would appear your own measurement would be based on invalid criteria.

In fact it would appear that you would assume an answer first and then try to match your analysis accordingly.

This is consistent with a pathological approach, probably in the area of wishful thinking bias.

If you need help with thinking my - answer would be..TO STOP THINKING!

Correct answers are rarely found in a chaotic mind.

Rachel Elnaugh said...

Thoughts turn into words which shape ideas which form actions - and actions mould our destiny, this is the process of Creation.

So don't for one moment think that the words here are irrelevant.

The energy of these discussions combines with the energy of similar discussions elsewhere; the force of which will bring things to a tipping point.

This is what I refer to when I talk about the Collective Conscious.

Us Human Doings have spent so long using sheer force to realize our objectives we have forgotten that intent and energy are far more powerful especially when combined.

Mr A Dragon said...

DLOG Said -

"So now I must appologise to Rachel and others on this blog for allowing myself to be compromised by you Grasshopper.

Sorry."

DLOG, your apology is accepted, let it be said that I welcome the sinner more than the saint.

You have shown progress today, be proud. I know that together, we can get you through this dark time.

Stephen, you on the other hand, will need extra-special help. You use big words in such a way that they have no meaning.

Your heart and mind are full of questions and fear. "Who am I? Why am I this way?"

Lesson 4 tomorrow. Goodnight my children. Sweet dreams.

TheDLOG said...

Further more Grasshopper,

"DLOG espouses the virtues of justice, freedom, equality, a new world order one minute and then braggs about an association with a 1960's gangster and convicted murderer the next!"

That is perhaps why I am in a good position in seeing right from wrong, good from bad, because I have been fortunate to experience both sides of every happening, and can appreciate everyones opinion, and must admit a rare occurence for many of the human race!!

And also, bragging again, having that ability to be able to mix with whoever from wherever.

Unless of course any one on this blog sees a different side to DLOG!!

DLOG

TheDLOG said...

Grasshopper, "DLOG, your apology is accepted, let it be said that I welcome the sinner more than the saint.

You have shown progress today, be proud. I know that together, we can get you through this dark time."

WTF are you talking about, I don't need to get through any dark hour, I know where I am going thank you, I have a wonderfull teacher, but can't tell you who yet, cos that would be 'bragging'

DLOG

Stephen said...

You use big words in such a way that they have no meaning.

Your heart and mind are full of questions and fear. "Who am I? Why am I this way?"

_________________________________

Why such talk of emptiness, when there is so much to do Mr A Dragon.
Join us and we will all make this world a better place.

Anonymous said...

"Interesting that Das Kapital is flying off the shelves,"

Mein Kampf actually consistently outsells Das Kapital in the UK but it would be equally crass to suggest that we are about to see the rise of the fourth reich.

I agree that people might be seeking meaning in their lives but I don't think they will find it in the works of Marx and Engles.

C

Rachel Elnaugh said...

Yep, and that was exactly my point.

R

Mr A Dragon said...

DLOG Said "WTF are you talking about, I don't need to get through any dark hour, I know where I am going thank you, I have a wonderfull teacher, but can't tell you who yet, cos that would be 'bragging'"

DLOG, I fear we must revisit your vice of "name dropping".

Why do you persistently do this? Is it to build up your fragile ego?

I sense much anger and frustration directed at an unjust and uncaring world.

You must learn to love yourself and then the rest will follow.

Here endeth Lesson No. 4.

Stephen said...

Re:You must learn to love yourself and the rest will follow.

DLOG, Mr A Dragon is a subversive.

The "self" does not exist. We are beyond our body, intellect and our emotions.

The "self" is a manifestation of the ego, which desires separate consciousness.

We are not separate, we are the one and of the one and we don't need to try to be or do anything. We just are.

Mr A Dragon likes to teach because Mr A Dragon's own ego desires power of others. Teaching such as his is a prostitution of a sacred faculty.

It is black magic.

See you Saturday DLOG....

Mr A Dragon said...

Stephen Said "DLOG, Mr A Dragon is a subversive."

One man's subversive is another mans free-thinker.

I have no need of power over others, real power is power over yourself and the means to walk your own path.

To stand in the sun on your own 2 feet and not clasp onto the coat tails of others, always in thier shadow.

Here endeth Lesson No. 5.

TheDLOG said...

Grasshopper, had I needed such philosophical lessons as yours, supposedly, I would have become a Shaolin Monk!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

Power is momentary Mr A Dragon. Self is an illusion. So you are talking about conjuring momentary power over an illusion.

You are born, you have power, you die.

It is my experience that power in the hands of the weak minded turns to cruelty. Likewise, power in the hands of the strong and ethically minded brings freedom for all.

I feel the way you have targeted DLOG in a condescending way signifies to me that you are in the former category.

A Weak minded DRAGON who can only serve power in the name of cruelty.

Mr A Dragon said...

Stephen, perhaps you judge others by your own standards?

There have been many discussions here where you seem to be "targetting" others with differing views to yours, or should I say Rachel's. Perhaps it's time to look into the mirror?

I target no one, but help many.

The light is reached through the dark tunnel and Stephen, I think it's time you trod that tunnel and came out into the light of knowledge of your true self.

There is still time.

Here endeth Lesson No. 6.

TheDLOG said...

Grasshopper, you help many, but how you are anonymous!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

The anonymous are targeted because they are here to subvert. Cruel whispers in the wilderness. Cowardly whispers in the wilderness.
Potshotters, snippers and opportunists. Subversive noises.

And of course it has been open season on Rachel, if for no other reason than the other DRAGONS wanted it so.

The government and financial institutions are targeted because they have let us all down.

I remain in the dark tunnel. It is the best place from which i can recognize the subversives. It is true that as you look into the abyss, so to do you become at one with this abyss.

But the abyss is also very much part of our world and to be truly at one we must be prepared to let it into into our lives too. We should not be afraid of it. Let it come. We will be all the more prepared for what is to come.

Here endeth the final lesson.

Mr A Dragon said...

Anonymous?

Yes, I am anonymous, so are you Stephen and so is DLOG to me.

Mr A Dragon, Stephen, DLOG these are just names, they do not identify the person, do they?

And this is why you feel you can hunt down any other contributors that do not hold the same view as you, until it is only the brave and those wishing to help your twisted soles who remain.

This "forum" has become a place of oppression, where only one view is tolerated and everyone else driven away.

Why do I stay? Because, I believe there is good in everyone and I am here to lead you through that tunnel stephen, into the light.

Here endeth Lesson No. 8.

TheDLOG said...

Grasshopper, "Yes, I am anonymous, so are you Stephen and so is DLOG to me."

That is your choice, others on this blog have chosen not to be anonymous by meeting with each other, and Rachel is deffinately NOT anonymous.

I myself am willing to meet with anyone who so wishes, my door is always open.

"This "forum" has become a place of oppression, where only one view is tolerated and everyone else driven away."

No, this is a place to air your views, that is how we the human race learn!! It is a choice to learn, one wants to learn or does not, no one can force another to learn, I have learn't much from here!!

DLOG

Stephen said...

Then reveal this light Mr A Dragon.

Does it involve bringing to justice the real cheaters and thieves in our society?
Those who avoid paying taxes at the expense of those who can not? Those who hold the country to ransom because they have supposedly run out of confidence to trade with each other.

Does it involve preventing the poverty and death of thousands of children every year?

Does it involve stopping lies and filthy propoganda by the media - reaching the minds of the vulnerable?

Show me this light Mr A Dragon?

Show me!

Stephen said...

At the BBC i proposed to develop a network of websites that serviced all villages and towns in the UK. I wanted every town and village to have their own website and to link them all together into a web of online communities. Each website would have local news and events and was connected into your TV set.

But my proposal was rejected and i was told this was because such a system would not be of value. Years later i realized that if such a system existed - ordinary people would be able to discuss what affected them most and this could lead to the development of national opinion polls and action groups which could threaten the government of the day.

I suggest that if folks wanted to put the people in charge of the media - this is one way to achieve it.

So citizens of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales think about supporting such an initiative. And friends in other countries - think of doing the same.

I have the plans for such a system if you are interested and i was a head of one of the biggest websites in the world..www.bbc.co.uk

WE HAVE THE POWER.
THE POWER OF THE PEOPLE.

Mr A Dragon said...

Stephen Said "Show me this light Mr A Dragon?

Show me!"

Ah, Stephen, your words warmed this old man and I am joyous to hear that you are indeed making progress!

I am not able to show you the light, you must find it for yourself. Yes, I can guide you towards its warming rays as I would the blind man.

Once your eyes are open, you will see, believe me and have faith.

Will it end all the injustices of which you speak? I cannot say, the way is not always clear, the path is often untrod.

Do not look for The Light to solve all your problems, you must do this yourself, with my guidance.

The Light afterall, comes from within, did you not know this?

Here endeth Lesson No.9.

Stephen said...

Yes, i thought you were talking about the "inner self" Mr A Dragon.

There is no light or dark Mr A Dragon.

There is only the intuition that is in touch with consciousness.

Sit silent, remove all thoughts and let it pervade you.

The intuition that says love is the only truth and a desire to make the world a more harmonise place to live for all.